Volume VIII, Issue VIII | August 28th, 2008
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Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
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I wish I was in the land of cotton
Old times there are not forgotten
Look Away! Look away!
Look Away! Dixie Land.
Robert E. Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson are two of the most virtuous and honorable men ever to grace the pages of American history. Both men were bastions of steadfastness and dignity in a time ripe with tension, violence, and destruction.
Robert E. Lee was the embodiment of integrity, morality, and righteousness. A devoutly Christian man, he believed that slavery was evil and that God’s providence would one day lead to the emancipation of those in bondage. Lee was the consummate gentleman and was beloved by both North and South. He was filled with patriotic fervor, and this love for America drove his impressive military career in the U.S. Army. Though always loyal to the Union, Lee could not turn his back on his home state, and when asked to lead the Northern invasion force into the South he had to decline. When Virginia seceded, Lee followed.
Other than his military prowess, Stonewall Jackson’s most notable characteristic was his deep Christian faith. Every weekend, Jackson broke the law in order to teach slaves to read the Bible. Jackson summed up his beliefs in a letter to his wife, writing “God has been our shield and to His name be all the glory.”
Lee and Jackson were two of the most decent individuals to traverse this great land, and in 1904, the Commonwealth of Virginia began an annual celebration of the lives of these gallant men in January known as Lee-Jackson Day. After Martin Luther King Day was declared a federal holiday in the early 1980s, Virginia began celebrating King’s holiday in conjunction with Lee-Jackson Day. In doing so, the state expressed a feeling of unity and pride surrounding Southerners of all races. However, four years ago the two holidays were separated, pushing Lee-Jackson Day to the Friday before. This action was purportedly taken because it was seen as insulting to King’s legacy to celebrate his life along with that of two Confederate generals.
Why has Martin Luther King Day become a popular national holiday while Lee-Jackson Day is relegated to the fringes of societal celebrations? Why are Americans so willing to honor a civil rights leader like King, but recoil at the idea of celebrating the lives of two other great men, Robert E. Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson? Why aren’t Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson given their own federal holiday? The simple answer is found in the immense historical revisionism surrounding the War Between the States (or as Yankees call it, the “Civil War”) perpetuated since the Confederacy breathed its last gasp of freedom in 1865.
Revisionist historians have demonized all things Southern and created a blanket of guilt that enshrouds the lives of all white Southerners, past and present. In an effort to destroy these false stereotypes and untruths, The Cornell American has devoted its January issue to honor the other January holiday, Lee-Jackson Day and to recognize the other Southern leaders who have been wrongfully slandered.
The main reason Lee-Jackson Day is not embraced by more Americans is due to this misinformation campaign waged against the South. If more Americans knew the truth about the Civil War and not just the propaganda force-fed to them by Northern-sympathizing historians, we could one day see Lee-Jackson Day rise to the prominence it deserves. Of the many myths propagated by these bogus historians, the three most commonly advocated tenets of civil war “mythstory” are 1) The War for Southern Independence was fought over slavery, 2) Secessionists were treasonous, and 3) Abraham Lincoln was a saintly leader.
1) The Civil War was about the free North fighting the slaveholding South to free blacks from the bondage of slavery.
Nothing could be farther from the truth. Abraham Lincoln himself made this perfectly clear when he stated, “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union.”
In fact, Lincoln managed to do just that; he “saved” the Union without actually freeing any slaves. The much-touted Emancipation Proclamation was a complete political charade. In this document Lincoln claimed to have freed all the slaves in the states still in “rebellion” but made sure to exempt all slaves in Union territory or areas occupied by Federal troops.
The Emancipation Proclamation was a worthless piece of political propaganda that freed no one. Its only possible effects could have been to deter any European powers (who wouldn’t want to be seen as defending slavery) from aiding the Confederacy or to cause a slave insurrection in the South.
Secondly, most of the men who fought for the South owned no slaves. When an anonymous Confederate soldier was captured by Federal troops, he was asked “Why do you fight us Johnny Reb?” to which he responded, “Because you are here.”
When the vicious war criminal William Tecumseh Sherman marched his troops on their path of destruction through the Carolinas, several of my ancestors took up arms to defend their homes from his spree of murder and destruction. The heroic actions taken by a people defending themselves from a cruelly violent and destructive invading force have been perverted by revisionist historians into a bunch of bigots fighting to preserve slavery. The boys in grey must be rolling in their graves.
2) Lincoln’s invasion of the South was done to restore order to treasonous secessionists.
While this myth at least acknowledges that Lincoln’s primary objective was not to free the slaves, it nevertheless ignores the reality that it was the Southerners who were in line with American Constitutional principles, not dear Mr. Lincoln. In fact, by invading the South Lincoln denied the very principle of governing by the consent of the governed that he had previously advocated: “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better…Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit.”
While this quote may seem to be more appropriate to Jefferson Davis than Abraham Lincoln, this is the line good ol’ Honest Abe was preaching back in 1848. I guess he forgot the clause that “any people anywhere” doesn’t include Southerners.
Before the election of Czar Lincoln, the majority of power in the United States was held by the states. It was the individual states that declared themselves independent of Britain (or dare I say, seceded from Britain). It was the individual states that ratified the Constitution.
It was the individual states who guarded their authority in the tenth amendment: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
Why would the states, which only a little more than a decade earlier had fought to defend their right to secede from Britain, willingly create a central government to which they would be bound for eternity? The answer, of course, is that the states did retain their right to secede from the Union, because the compact they had formed was that of a voluntary Union. As Alexis de Tocqueville noted, “If one of the states chooses to withdraw from the compact, it would be difficult to disprove its right in doing so, and the Federal Government would have no means of maintaining its claims directly either by force or right.” I think Lincoln must have skipped that chapter of Democracy in America.
3) Abraham Lincoln was one of America’s greatest presidents.
The near demigod status of Lincoln has been the result of a clever propaganda campaign exercised by revisionist historians to cover up the blemishes of his term and whitewash the actions of the Union during the War of Northern Aggression. The truth of the matter is that Lincoln was an oppressive and violent dictator who had no respect for the Constitution or the rights it was supposed to protect.
As dictator (oops, I mean president) Lincoln silenced dissent in the North by arresting and jailing newspaper editors who expressed opinions contrary to his. He decided that he held the authority to suspend the Writ of Habeas Corpus (a power granted only to Congress in Article 1 Section 9 of the Constitution) and jailed men he deemed to be political dissidents for indeterminate amounts of time, providing them with neither charge nor trial.
Lincoln also made sure that the Maryland legislature would not take any action against him by arresting popularly-elected legislators who were suspected of being secessionists or sympathetic to making peace with the Confederacy. Free elections were disrupted throughout the North by Federal troops following the orders of the Lincoln administration, intent on ensuring Unionist victories.
While Lincoln may have opposed the institution of slavery, his real dream was for all of America to be white. Lincoln was involved with several groups that advocated colonizing America’s blacks back to Africa or to the Caribbean. Hmm, a president whose main goal is an all-white America—is this not more like David Duke than “The Great Emancipator”?
Lincoln’s authoritarian rule was felt most strongly in the Southern states he invaded. In direct violations of the laws of war, including 1863’s Geneva Conventions, Union generals under Lincoln’s command ruthlessly waged war on civilians. Cities were bombarded and burned. Sherman’s march left a mile-wide swath of destruction across the south. Private property was confiscated or destroyed. Thousands were left poor and homeless. As a result of Lincoln’s invasion of the South, more than 600,000 Americans would die. Is this the mark of a “great” president?
By taking a second look at Abraham Lincoln and the so-called “Civil War,” one comes to the conclusion that the simple interpretation of Northerners being heroes and Southerners being evil is a gross distortion of the actual truth. Southerners should have immense pride in their ancestry. Descendants of the hundreds of thousands of Johnny Rebs who took up arms to defend their homeland should hold their heads up high and be proud of the bravery of their forefathers. It is because of the strength and valor of these men and heroes like Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson that I am proud of my Southern heritage. To put it simply:
I wish I was in the land of cotton
Old times there are not forgotten
Look Away! Look away!
Look Away! Dixie Land.
Eric Shive graduated in 2007 from the College of Arts and Sciences. He can be reached at ems63@cornell.edu.
Comments
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 01/26/2005 at 1:54 PMActually, there is a funny anecdote to the anonymous commentator's slavery issue. You see, Lincoln stole Henry Clay's idea of "American Colonization", where the slaves would be freed, and resettled outside of the US (primarily in Central America and the Carribbean). Though Clay desired to send all blacks back to Africa, both men agreed that all American labor should be reserved for whites only.
A few other notes:
Lincoln arrested the entire state legislature of Maryland before they voted to secede.
Lincoln sent troops to NYC to quell the draft riots. (opposition to fighting the war to 'liberate' blacks)
While Lincoln was in the state legislature in Illinois, he spearheaded legislation to block all free blacks from entrance into Illinois.
Linoln's Emancipation Proclamation freed no blacks. It freed blacks in states in which Lincoln did not have the jurisdiction to do so.
Lincoln had slaves in the White House until he kicked them out.
The North considered seceding after the War of 1812 during the Hartford Convention. Nobody in the South argued secession was unconstitutional, but rather they argued that it was not a smart idea.
Slavery was actually on the decline at the time. It was becoming more and more economically advantageous to let the free market dictate labor prices. Owning slaves meant expensive upkeep for the slave owners. Hired help was far more economical.
Southern states began seceding after Lincoln imposed high tariffs on southern goods, crippling the economy of Dixie.
Just some food for thought.
Josh Harmon
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/11/2005 at 2:30 PMAs long as this "common tater" is recommending Lincoln's speeches, I'll say try reading his part of the debates with Mr. Douglas. Lincoln said in 1858, 2 years before being elected dictator/president that he was in favor of the Illinois laws keeping black people in Illinois from voting, serving on a jury, and marrying white people. He said he saw blacks as inferior to whites. I'll ask you the same question, "Are these not admirable words?" His pious, blue-eyed pyromaniac Sherman was just as prejudiced against blacks.
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/11/2005 at 4:33 PMI recommend that you read Lincoln's first inaugural address. In it, he said that he would be willing to sign a Constitutional amendment to make slavery explicit and irrevocable to protect the institution of slavery (eventhough it was already protected by the clause regarding the rendition of fugitives from justice) if the handful of states that had seceded at the time would return to the union ( the rest of the Confederate States, which hadn't seceded at the time of Lincoln's inauguration, didn't do so until he usurped authority reserved to the congress). The seceded states still refused to return to the union. If slavery was so important to the secessionists, why wouldn't they have pounced on such an offer?
States rights was the single-most important issue to the southerners. Proof of this lies in the reason why Confederate General States Rights Gist was given such a name by his parents. Not to mention the crisis of 1833 involving "The Tariff of Abomination" in which John C. Calhoun brought up the issue of the nature of the federal government.
On another note, doesn't an estranged spouse have the right to walk out of an abusive marriage? Other than the entities involved, the principle is the same.
Lincoln changed our country from a voluntary one to an involuntary one. You call this freedom?
Re: Let?s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Brock on 02/12/2005 at 10:30 AMSlavery was one of many issues with the tariff or economic control being the primary one. Slavery certainly had noting to do with Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas seceding, as they only left when Lincoln called for volunteers to invade the South. The actual cause of the War was the invasion of Virginia. Please see quotes from Dickens, Marx and Lincoln below.
"The Northern onslaught upon slavery was no more than a piece of specious humbug designed to conceal its desire for economic control of the Southern states." Charles Dickens, 1862
"The war between the North and the South is a tariff war. The war is further, not for any principle, does not touch the question of slavery, and in fact turns on the Northern lust for sovereignty." Karl Marx
When asked "Why not let the South go in peace?" Lincoln replied: "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?"
More quotes from Lincoln:
"The [Emancipation] proclamation has no constitutional or legal justification except as a war measure." Letter to Sec. of Treas. Salmon P. Chase; 3 Sep 1863
"The suspension of the habeas corpus was for the purpose that men may be arrested and held in prison who cannot be proved guilty of any defined crime." "Arrests," wrote President Lincoln to that Albany committee of Democrats, "are not made so much for what has been done as for what might be done. The man who stands by and says nothing when the peril of his Government is discussed cannot be misunderstood. If not hindered (by arrest, imprisonment, or death) he is sure to help the enemy. "Under Lincoln's definition silence became an act of treason. "Much more, if a man talks ambiguously, talks with 'buts' and 'ifs' and 'ands' he cannot be misunderstood. If not hindered (by imprisonment or death) this man will actively commit treason. Arbitrary arrests are not made for the treason defined in the Constitution, but to prevent treason."
"Would my word free the slaves, when I cannot even enforce the Constitution in the rebel States? And what reason is there to think it would have any greater effect upon the slaves than the late law of Congress, which I approved, and which offers protection and freedom to the slaves of rebel masters who come within our lines? Yet I cannot learn that the law has caused a single slave to come over to us."
"We didn't go into the war to put down slavery, but to put the flag back; and to act differently at this moment would, I have no doubt, not only weaken our cause, but smack of bad faith..."
Lincoln's letter to Gustavus Fox on 1 May, 1861, makes it clear that he was pleased by the result of the firing on Ft Sumter..." You and I both anticipated that the cause of the country would be advanced by making the attempt to provision Ft Sumter, even if it should fail; and it is no small consolation now to feel that our anticipation is justified by the result. "
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/10/2005 at 12:04 AMI agree Lincoln was not all he's really been cracked up to be, and yes, history is written by the victors. However, I think you're going far too far in your defense of the southern states during that time period. There was considerable fear on both sides of a conspiracy; in the north, they believed the South to be planning to destroy free labor by extending slavery everywhere, and in the South, the perennial fear was that the Feds were coming for their slaves.
I agree, Robert E. Lee was a good guy.. He just chose the wrong side.
Honestly, I just don't buy the state's right interpertation of the constitution. Yes, it was the individual colonies that pulled out of Britian; however, the government based on those colonies remaining seperate, the articles of confederation, was pretty useless.
The Constitution was not signed by the states; it was ratified by the people. The people by state, but the people nonetheless. It created a Union. This isn't a loose confederation of autonomous allies bound together; this is a cohesive Nation. It's America. Just becuase the majority of people don't agree with you anymore does not mean you have the right to just up and walk out. If South Carolina can get pissed off and leave the union, then what happens when Charleston doesn't agree with the rest of South Carolina? It gets up and leaves. What happens when one block of Charleston gets pissed off with the rest? That's an extremely unrealistic chain of thought, yes, but that's also the ideology you're supporting here.
As to the defense against Sherman's march.. I entirely agree with the rebels on that one. I'm pretty disgusting that it's glossied over as it is; it was an incredibly brutal action. While completely inexcusable, the same defense can be used as with the bombing of Hiroshima; it expediated the end of the war. Tremendous civilian casualties, yes. Terrible, yes. But it helped win the war. Winning the war meant keeping the Union; and that was the single most important objective.
Yeah, the emancipation proclaimation is one of the most mis-understood texts ever. I blame the education system. I think it's rather misunderstood here, as well, though.. The idea I got from it was that it was an offer to return to the union. Any rebel state that returned would be allowed to keep it's slaves... Otherwise, the Union was going to come and free them by forc All Lincoln wanted was the Union back together. If the slave states would not come back, then they would no longer have slavery; the 'emancipation' of these slaves swelled the Northern armies, navies, and behind-the-lines workforce at a critical point and allowed them to win the war. It wasn't merely propaganda, it was a desperation political move to either end the war or provide the means of winning it.
Again back to Lincoln and his racism.. Yes, he was racist. He was against slavery, but all for black people being inferior. Such an un-enlightened view really isn't surprising considering the time; that is pretty much the only thing the north and south agreed on. He once told a delegation of blacks to the white house "But for your race among us there could not be war, although many men engaged on either side do not care for you one way or the other."
Lincoln was by no means an angel.. but I do believe he was a hero. Simply put, he saved the one single most important thing in America, and that is the Union. Everything he did was to accomplish that goal. By no means was the South evil, just misguided and driven to outrageous lenghs by fear of a few northern radicals, spurned on by their own imagined fear of the Southern radicals. Lincoln settled it. More bloodily than I could possibly imagine, yes, with more terrible actions done on more people than anyone wants to consider, yes.. but he saved the Union.
(Reply to this)
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/11/2005 at 2:16 PM"but he saved the Union."
Who cares? This union is nothing but tyranny wrapped in a nice, neat package.
"Honest Abe" was nothing more than a savage tyrant who stomped all over the Constitution for political gain. And for God's sake learn this: Union is nothing w/o the Constitution.
He saved the Union......it's as if you're telling me Uncle Joe Stalin was great because he helped topple Hitler. Bah I say!
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/11/2005 at 4:57 PMWhat would have happened if just one state didn't ratify the Constitution in 1789? Actually, Rhode Island and North Carolina didn't ratify it until after the Constitution went into effect. One of them two years after the fact! Were they not their own entity? Weren't the people of these states separate from the union? The people of the states voluntarily entered the union as a state. They had no intention of giving up their sovereignty to the national will. The people of the southern states voluntarily left the union in the same manner in which they entered into it.
Whatever happened to idea espoused in the Declaration of Independence of our right to government by the consent of the governed? The federal government under Lincoln no longer had the consent of the southern people. They had a right to form a new one that suited them better.
Remember, Lincoln saved the union alright, but in doing so, he destroyed the legacy the founding fathers gave us.
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/11/2005 at 5:16 PMJust becuase the majority of people don't agree with you anymore does not mean you have the right to just up and walk out. If South Carolina can get pissed off and leave the union, then what happens when Charleston doesn't agree with the rest of South Carolina? It gets up and leaves.
.....In a word, YES! Try reading from the line " When in the course of human events."
The rest should be self Explanatory!
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/14/2005 at 9:25 AMInteresting article from Dr. Walter E. Williams:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28529
and Dr. Thomas DiLorenzo:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/dilorenzo2.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo34.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo45.html
I suggest reading all of Williams' & DiLorenzo's articles...
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/13/2005 at 8:12 AMhttp://www.nps.gov/liho/debate4.htm
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."
Mr. Lincoln’s Speech, Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois
September 18, 1858
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http://douglassarchives.org/linc_a89.htm
"Mr. Jefferson did not mean to say, nor do I, that the power of emancipation is in the Federal Government. He spoke of Virginia; and, as to the power of emancipation, I speak of the slaveholding States only. The Federal Government, however, as we insist, has the power of restraining the extension of the institution — the power to insure that a slave insurrection shall never occur on any American soil which is now free from slavery. "
Abraham Lincoln, "Cooper Institute Address," 27 February 1860
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http://www.geocities.com/presidentialspeeches/1862.htm
"I cannot make it better known than it already is that I strongly favor colonization."
Abraham Lincoln', 2nd Annual Message, December 1,1862, Washington, DC
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corwin_amendment
http://www.geocities.com/ghostamendment
The Corwin amendment
uS House of Representatives, 28 February 1861
uS Senate, Adopted Adopted March 2, 1861
No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/presiden/inaug/lincoln1.htm
I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.
I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution--which amendment, however, I have not seen--has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service. To avoid misconstruction of what I have said, I depart from my purpose not to speak of particular amendments so far as to say that, holding such a provision to now be implied constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.
First Inaugural Address of Abraham Lincoln, Monday, March 4, 1861
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A former colony, now a sovereign State, has the authority to enter into a legal compact but not to exit it?
The union was established in June 21, 1788 when 9 of the former colonies, seceded from the Articles of Confederation, and entered the new union by ratifying the new Constitution.
Was the Constitution of the uSA, enforcable in North Carolina (ratified in November 21, 1789), Rhode Island (ratified May 29, 1790) or Vermont (ratified in January 10, 1791) in June 21, 1788.
Of course not.
The Constitution does not grant any rights but simply gives authority to an agent, in this case, to protect pre-existing rights. And that is the why of the 9th ad 10th amendments. Many at the time thought that the Bill of Rights were unecessary, that the Constitution did not grant the Federal government authority except those expressely listed in Article 1, Section 8. The "general welfare" being defined by the list restrictive list.
The agent, i.e. Central government, is NEVER higher than the principal(s), i.e. the State(s).
Deo Vindice
Confederate_Coqui
(Reply to this)
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/13/2005 at 9:32 PMGiven that the Cornell American's motto is "America First," I'm a bit confused about how they can also be for nullification and secession. True patriots don't advocate the breakup of the country they claim to love! Would you think it was appropriate for, say, California and the Northeastern states to secede--as some extreme liberals have joked about--in the wake of Bush's re-election? I doubt you'd approve.
On another topic, if the South had won the Civil War, which seems to be what the Editors of the American would have wanted, America could never have become the strong and prosperous nation it is today. Do you think that the North or South by themselves could have suceeded in defeating the Nazis and the Japanese in World War II? Oh wait, maybe we shouldn't have gotten involved in the War at all, maybe we should have retreated to 'Fortress America' and let Hitler take over the rest of the world.
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/13/2005 at 9:33 PMGiven that the Cornell American's motto is "America First," I'm a bit confused about how they can also be for nullification and secession. True patriots don't advocate the breakup of the country they claim to love! Would you think it was appropriate for, say, California and the Northeastern states to secede--as some extreme liberals have joked about--in the wake of Bush's re-election? I doubt you'd approve.
On another topic, if the South had won the Civil War, which seems to be what the Editors of the American would have wanted, America could never have become the strong and prosperous nation it is today. Do you think that the North or South by themselves could have suceeded in defeating the Nazis and the Japanese in World War II? Oh wait, maybe we shouldn't have gotten involved in the War at all, maybe we should have retreated to 'Fortress America' and let Hitler take over the rest of the world.
(Reply to this)
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/14/2005 at 7:38 AMTo acknowledge the authority of a member State to nullify or secede is simply to abide by the terms of the compact. Neither for nor against the united States.
What ifs ...
If the uS had not gotten itself invoved in the European war of circa 1917, by violating neutrality and suplying weapons to England, there may have not been a WW1 hero to raise to power in Germany and, perhaps, no WW2.
Had the uS not taken over the Philipines and taken sides on the side of the Europeans holdings in Southeast Asia, i.e. European Colonies, maybe Japan would not have considered the uS as a threat to be confronted. Maybe if the uS had not sent ships to into Japanese territorial waters to probe and harass the Japanese, Japan would not have concluded that the uS was preparing to attack Japan and needed to preempt.
What ifs ...
And why would you assume that the CSA would not have joined to fight against the Axis?
Deo Vindice
Confederate_Coqui
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/14/2005 at 1:33 PMWhen writers on both sides of the WAWH understand the TRUE meaning/definition of "CIVIL WAR".....they will then STOP calling this conflict a civil war!!! It was a war provoked by abraham lincoln....it was a war he was determined that was going to take place and therefore, the most proper term for this war is "The War of Northern Aggression", but more notably The War Beteen the States!!! When the writer of this article stops using that term "civil war".....this article will hold credence!!! Otherwise the article is quite good.
Patricia S. Godwin
Selma, Alabama
(Reply to this)
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/14/2005 at 8:53 PMI understand the issue with regards to labels very well. I do not use the term "civil war." It was the South's War for Independence. I usually make my point with regards to what a civil war is and, then, use the term Lincoln's War for a short term to use.
Deo Vindice
Cofederate_Coqui
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/14/2005 at 8:54 PMI understand the issue with regards to labels very well. I do not use the term "civil war." It was the South's War for Independence. I usually make my point with regards to what a civil war is and, then, use the term Lincoln's War for a short term to use.
Deo Vindice
Cofederate_Coqui
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/25/2005 at 11:30 PMzzzzzzz...
Who cares whether or not Lincoln was a saint? The more pernicious ongoing revision is the Southern "Lost Cause" mythology that has had an enduring choke hold on American history. Go to any Civil War battle site in the United States. Tell me if you see a mention of slavery, the undeniable root cause of the conflict. (OK, don't go. I'll tell you: You won't, because our National Parks are more interested in tourist dollars than historical truth.) And don't give me "states rights" obscurantism. At best, it's fuzzy romanticism; at worst, it's just code for "slavery."
The Civil War (proper term) was, of course, all about slavery and was brought on by the South's aggressive campaign to widen the scope of its slave-based economy throughout North America. (Anyone remember the Fugitive Slave Laws? The Missouri Compromise? The South's occasional expeditions to invade Cuba to establish a slave colony? Probably not.) The South was indeed a cotton superpower, although, fatally, one that was not self-sufficient enough economically to defeat the Northern states.
The myth of Robert E. Lee as snow-white Virginia gentleman and Stonewall Jackson as righteous Christian warrior are, in fact, the real myths that need to be debunked. (After all, American evangelism in the 19th century was more of a Northern phenomenon than a Southern one.) As does the old chestnut of the unfortunate oppressed South. (3/5 clause, anyone? Utter dominance of United States Senate?)
Hey, now don't get me wrong, I love the South, have relatives there, and visit often (and I have limitless respect for those long-departed soldiers of the South, too). All the more reason I'm glad that Abe held this Union together.
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Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/28/2005 at 10:34 AM"The South's occasional expeditions to invade Cuba to establish a slave colony?'
Now, this is a new one on me but I would love to learn about it. Can you give me a reference?
I am aware that Cuban independence movement (from Spain) leaders asked Mr. Jefferson Davis to lead them in their war of independence but I am not aware of incursions by Southerners. Cuba (Puerto Rico, Philipines, Hawaii, ...) was indeed invaded but it was the folks carrying the stars and stripes.
Lincoln "held" the union but destroyed the Republic.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
Deo Vindice
Confederate_Coqui
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 05/2/2006 at 4:12 PMAfter reading many erroneous, ignorant, revisionist comments, I was pleased to read the above and reassured that sanity and scholarship does still exist (Yes, I lay claim to being well informed as I have studied, written and read voluminously re: our shared history THE CIVIL WAR)
Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 02/28/2005 at 10:35 AM"The South's occasional expeditions to invade Cuba to establish a slave colony?'
Now, this is a new one on me but I would love to learn about it. Can you give me a reference?
I am aware that Cuban independence movement (from Spain) leaders asked Mr. Jefferson Davis to lead them in their war of independence but I am not aware of incursions by Southerners. Cuba (Puerto Rico, Philipines, Hawaii, ...) was indeed invaded but it was the folks carrying the stars and stripes.
Lincoln "held" the union but destroyed the Republic.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
Deo Vindice
Confederate_Coqui
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Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 03/9/2005 at 11:14 PMThe south needs to stop blaming its misfortunes on the yankees. Yes, it was devastated by the Civil War. Yes, it bore the brunt of the Revolution before that, forgotten by most Americans. But poverty, widespread inequality, violence, and ignorance were woven into the fabric of the south all along. The south was colonized as a dumping ground for the white trash of Britain and a playground for would-be feudal lords longing for the good old days of serfdom. When they couldn't et away with treating white men as chattel, they turned to the jungles of Africa and found some black ones. The whole idea of the south was rotten from the beginning.
Moreover, there is no reasonable defense of the Confederacy outside of slavery. A matter of economics? I do not deny the disconnect of economic interests, principally the tariff. That sort of thing tends to happen when the economy of one region of the country is built on slave labor and the other is not. The founders believed slavery must be extinguished for this very reason.
To escape unbearable tyranny? Lincoln himself did not believe he had the right to interfere with the free exercise of slavery within the southern states, nor did he until they took up arms against the federal government. The Constitution did not prevent the congress from establishing a tariff system favoring the northern states over the southern. It went so far as the infamous three-fifths compromise, giving the southern states disproportionate representation in the federal government. In the years preceding the rebellion, the Supreme Court upheld the fugitive slave laws and issued the Dred Scott decision. What tyranny is this? No taxation without...over-representation? Truly, the spirit of '76 lived on in the sons of dixie. The south had no more cause for grievance than the north.
States rights? Indeed so- the right to maintain and EXPAND the practice of slave labor. While part of the union, the southern states pushed to expand slavery into the new territories. Are we expected to believe a CSA would have recognized the USAs territorial claim (which clearly would have been rendered utterly impracticable and ridiculous by the secession) to the entire remainder of the continent, along with the existing foreign sovereignties over Mexico, Latin America, the Carribean, etc? I think not. It would have been every bit as grabby as the US always was, and the two nations would have battled each other for mastery of the western hemisphere.
It might be argued on principle that any state or combination of states could exercise the sovereign right to secede from the union at any time on no pretext at all. It would take a determinedly creative interpretation of the Constitution to find a denial of this right, though our best evidence suggests many of the founders, including Washington himself, intended the union to be permanent, barring hideous federal abuses of the Constitution that did not, in fact, occur. I will avoid this debate, partly because I am not confident I could make a strong case, but mostly because it is irrelevant.
The confederacy was not formed on a whim to score points off constitutional lawyers. It was formed for a REASON, which is that the slave system had created a separate social and economic system best served by a second government. Whether the south had a legal entitlement to such a government does not, in the end, matter. We cannot accept lectures on the principles of self-determination from slavers. The south chose to establish itself as a slave society and it refused to abandon the practice, and the transcendent evil of THOSE choices render their reasons and consequences irrelevant and indefensible. The doomed project of the confederacy may be justly consigned to the trash heap of history, along with tsarist Russia, the kingdom of Asante, and the thousand year reich- with whose racial theorists it had a good deal in common. The CSA was a stillborn monument to the dark side of the human spirit, and the invasion, conquest, and subsequent turmoil it brought upon itself were richly deserved.
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The real point
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 03/11/2005 at 1:15 PM3/11/05 LISTEN UP
The past is unchangable. Yet, the perspection of the past is changabe. Thank Cornell American for stating the counter perspective, not widely held by the Ithaca community.
However, the present and the future are controllable. The real underlying point of this article is Southeners are discriminated against at Cornell, both overtly and clandistinely.
So yankees get up off your high horse. We are people too. The gist of the arguement is you say ya'll appreciate and accept all people of diverse origins. Yet, god help a student who openly admits they are straight, white and southern baptist. Somehow, you find yourself beat off questions about slavery, the Klan, and the dispropostional wealth of whites verses blacks. Get over it!
Why are you blamin' me for this stuff? I'm just a poor boy who worked his way here to this "ivy league" school. Money can't buy class.
Why is it policitically correct to attack southern whites for all of America's problems? We suffer the same shit as minorities: lack of higher education, childhood proverty, unmarried parents, substance abuse, and social misconceptions of our culture. Find a new enemy, we trying to grow beyond our beginings. Damm, you yankees keep on holden us down.
My advise is focus on your own life. I'm the cause of your crappy life. You are responsible for it; stay the hell out of mine.
Sandlapper
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Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 04/28/2005 at 3:13 PMHow in the world is Robert E Lee a "great" man when he knowingly sent troops on suicidal frontal attacks? Jackson was reviled by his troops for his bizzare obsessions and know widely as "Tom Fool". He also was seen as contemptuous of his foot soldiers' well being and marched them mercilessly. And also loved the frontal assault.
Why champion these guys? Their commitment to Napoleonic era tactics killed thousands of their own troops needlessly. If the North had adopted breach loaders or the repeating rifles that already existed the war would have been over much quicker. And no one would remember Lee or Jackson as much more than footnotes. As it was the North was led by idiots
and the South by romantic zealots so hundreds of thousands had to die just so things could end up being worse than before the war.
Read: David M Potter "The Impending Crisis"
Gregory Coco "The Civil War Infrantryman"
Sam Watkins "Company Aych"
...and make up your own mind. No one won the war. America lost...and spent 140 odd years trying to recover. I wonder if we have.
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Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 05/2/2006 at 5:22 PMI am a Cornell Grad 1976 Agriculture and Life Sciences. These quotes from our founders Ezra Cornell and Andrew Dickson White.
"Slavery as it is garenteed (sic) in the states by the Constitution is bad enough and must be indured until it is removed by the fource of enlightened publick opinion acting upon the slaveholder, but for the sake of humanity let it not be extended." .....Ezra Cornell
"This war I firmly believe was provoked by our rulers to gratify a lust for conquest and extend the curse of human slavery.".......Ezra Cornell
Draft of a letter from Andrew Dickson White to C. H. McCormick - September 5,1874
"In answer to your letter first received I would say that we have no colored students at the University at present but shall surely be glad to receive any who are prepared to enter. Although there is no certainty, the entrance of any such students here during the present year, they may come and even if one offered himself and passed the examinations, we should receive him even if all our five hundred white students were to ask for dismissal on that account."....Andrew Dickson White
I came, passed the examinations and am thankful for these visionary giants.
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Post a Comment


Re: Let’s Hear It for the Boys in Grey
By: Cornell American enthusiast on 01/26/2005 at 10:50 AMEric,
It surprises me that you would write an entire article without addressing the slavery issue. You can't deny that it was a big part of the divide between North and South when it came to the new territories. It seems you're simply trying to be provocative by not once repudiating slavery.
I also wonder if you've ever read Lincoln's speeches-- his response to the Dred Scott decision shows the forces at work running up to the War. Are these not admirable words?
So you have unfortunately reached the conclusion that the victors write the history. But the victors who write it often include Lincoln's strong-handed methods, as well as a sympathetic tone towards the South for all they suffered. Robert E. Lee is seldom badmouthed, but instead portrayed as Titus before the King. As such, you create quite the straw man to debate. That's unfortunate, because you could have had a much stronger article if you hadn't resorted to ignoring the inconvenient facts (what the Emancipation Proclamation *did* do, the arguable philosophy that the union had to be preserved, the South's attempt at joining forces with England, the popular Southern family slave argument).
I will not argue that the North was not cruel. I will not say Sherman was justified. But I will say that the Southern secession precipitated the war-- they knew it was coming. And war ought to be waged as effectively as possible when the cause is so great-- in this case, the preservation of the union, and at times the abolition of slavery.
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